Listed
below are responses posted in relation to a few articles featured in
a major Malaysian newspaper. In particular one article which featured
a programme founded by a man who claimed to be a reformed
homosexual was most discussed. The programme
was designed by him to be used to help other homosexuals both men and
women recover from their homosexuality and become straight through a
step by step therapy to resolve the issues that the founder claimed
to be the cause of homosexuality.
In
order to not infringe on any copyright or open ourselves to possible
litigation as this is a website has no restriction to its circulation
we have not reproduced the article here nor dare we provide the link
here but we have chosen these following thought provoking responses.
The responses have been edited to avoid any specific references and
truncated as they were just too numerous and many of them too long.
Do bear in mind that the quotes represent the personal opinion or highlight
issues which the contributors personally felt relevant and thus do not
represent the stand of LPG as a whole.
Date
Jan 12th 2005
who
are we to judge
"asi read these articles, i
hope that they do not give parents of gay or gay-confused teens and
adults the notion that a couple of hours of therapy can provide
the instant cure for homosexuality. that is
what i feel from reading these articles. "
"bottom
line is, you can be called pathetic, faggot, queer, ah qua, pondan, and just about every name under the book..but these are just names,
they hold no meaning unless you yourself gives the ok to have the sign
stitched on you. while some chose to embrace
these names willingly, others do not. does
that make them pathetic? does that make them
a closet case? maybe, maybe not. who are we to
judge? we as a gay community have been judging
one another for so long, it is so stale. and
that's pathetic. do not hate others for having
the guts to be someone you are not. inside
and out. "
Date:
Wed Jan 12, 20053:20pm
I
just live my life as it is
"Let's not question
the effectiveness of the programme and the
side effect of it, let's assume that it does can change you..
Or may be later there is a scientist, who finally invented a simple
way of changing your sexual
orientation by just taking a pill (just like the movie - Matrix), you
wake up and found that your past homosexual life was just a dream. WILL YOU TAKE THAT PILL?
To be or not to be, that is the question."
"As for me, I
have stopped asking the question of the cause of being a homosexual.
It serve no purpose looking at the cause. Why must I care so
much since nobody cares about the cause of heterosexuality anyway? I
just live my life as it is and live the best out of it. The thing is, living as a gay person does not make me any lesser or more
than others. I am equaly happy and sad, good
and bad at times, just like everyone else."
Date:
Thu Jan 13, 20051:05pm
"Can we change
who we r? Sounds fishy.. I reckon they started
out wif
someone who is bisexual for a start."
Date:
Thu Jan 13, 20054:37pm
"The "causes"
of homosexuality or heterosexuality is still not fully understood. People,
whether gay or straight, might have undergone traumatic childhood experiences
and might need help to deal with the trauma.
However, it is questionable whether these experiences "caused"
their sexual orientation."
"An important
large scale study in 1981 study of almost 1000 homosexual men and women
by Bell, Weinberg and Hammersmith found no direct causal relationship
between parenting styles and sexual orientation of the child,
debunking the "bad parenting" theory as a "cause"
of homosexuality. "
" I would like to point out that there are many gay men who get
into marriages with women (even without having to undergo "therapy")
realize after some time that their marriage do not work and that living
such lives was inconsistent with their sexuality. For them, having married
to persons of the opposite sex, far from bringing harmony due to "complementarity", is the precise cause of disharmony.
This highlights the importance of gender-concordant spouse (opposite
sex for heterosexuals, same sex for homosexuals) in such relationships.
Meanwhile, leaders of the so called "ex-gay" movement, who
publically proclaimed to have changed to "straight"
have been found to be engaging in same-sex sexual activity in secret"
Date: Fri Jan 14, 2005 0:00am
"
One sided
opinions based on anecdotal cases are grossly irresponsible reporting
and will hardly stand up as scientific evidence. Quoting studies where
homosexuals are given therapy to be heterosexual may seem impressive
to the shallow. Have they comparison studies where heterosexuals are
given therapy to be homosexual? Bias."
Date:
Fri Jan 14, 20052:40am
Staying
in the small room (a.k.a. closet) is suffocating
"I do come across
gays ….. who desire to convert and to
live a heterosexual lifestyle (conversion of sexualorientation
is, to date, clinically unproved). Myself and some others,have also once considered or chosen this option in
one way or the other. But we all know that it is not only deceitful
to ourselves butalso to the innocent party,
for our love is not true and distorted.
But why? For no other reason than we have been put in a position that
heterosexual love and lifestyle is recognized and blessed, despite the
reality that heterosexual life is also full of challenges and adversities,
while our love for another person of the same sex is regarded as abnormal,
sick, and must be controlled, "corrected" if possible. Regrettably,
society that holds such perception is more often also the perpetuator
that reinforce and reproduce these biased treatments. And ironically,
as part of the society, we also take on these homophobic attitude toward
ourselves; driving ourselves deep into the abyss of despair where the
light never shine on our self-esteem and self-respect. We hence walk
in the darkness that we do not invite."
"Staying in the
small room (a.k.a. closet) is suffocating.
So myself and many others do come out and invite our straight
friends to visit our world. It is through these personal,
open and equal communication, We have learnt that no one's love
carries less weight or less real than the other if there are respect,
trust and equality."
"By the way,
we are sons, fathers, hawkers, workers, professionals, public servants,
etc. We are as common as anyone else. We help, we care and we pay taxes
too."
Date:
Fri Jan 14, 200510:25pm
You
have a choice
"Poisoning public
and clouding their mind - its utterly shocking to see how he injected
his personal bad experience into the articles and trying to mislead
the public to believe that all gay relationship are doomed just like
his."
"Irresponsible
remarks - did you notice how he equate gay relationship as temporal
pleasures ? But excuse me, heterosexuals dont do that ? Are heterosexuals
all monogamous ? Are they all married and not
available ? Are they not flirting and sleeping around ? What are those things called then
? Who are those raping their own daugthers ? Who are those who raped and killed small little girls
or innocent women ? Are they not heterosexuals
? "
"Eventhough gay relationship is harder
and more difficult ( like one member complained
) , it doesnt mean its not possible. Dimanaadakemahuan ,di situ adajalannya. You have a choice, to live a more
convenient life like some ( who turn straight
for convenient sake ) but suffer inside because deep down you know where
you belong too. ( I have spoken to many married men about this , and
to hear their grievances makes me very sad ) OR lead a life you belong
to. There are people who have done that, so why cant you
? "
"Its really sad
to see a straight Ah Kua bashing us publicly
with the knowledge that our voices are limited to ( letters ) and our
legs are bound by our societal conservatism. "
Date:
Sun Jan 16, 200510:52am
"…….
Afterall, this is just a SUPPRESSION PROGRAMME, not a 'change'
or 'cure' programme.
Talking about suppression, when you give dog food to a cat, can it survive?
Answer is yes. It has novchoice but to eat when hungry.
Talking about giving guide on how to live a 'happily married straight
life', or in short, how to be a good husband, do we really need to go
through all that? "
"Question is: Are we living our life for ourselves or pretending
to be others?"
"Ladies, imagine
your husband while holding your hands in public, his eyes keep wandering
on hunks passing by... or say "I love you, you look so beautiful"
actually meant your nice hair-do, make-up and
dresses... and while making love with you, grabbing your arms so tight
that he is actually fantasizing for a muscular biceps...
Think about it."
Date:
Fri, 14 Jan 200518:04:34 +0000
"………..never
claim to 'cure' or 'change' anyone, just as its name, is just a choice
for gays to lead the way they want to be, as themselves, or as straight
(even though they're gay by nature). Even those who have successfully
changed & got married with kids don't deny that they still are attracted
to men, & in fact
they'll readily admit that they'll have to live with this inclination
for the rest of their lives..... so much about
being cured!!!! "
Date:
Sun Jan 16, 200511:14am
"…….
i personally think that if there are gays out there who
want to change, they should be given the encouragement to do so…."
Date:
Fri Jan 14, 200511:32 pm
The
gay community itself is a very diverse community
"Homosexuality
is not a choice. It is not a preference. It is a sexual orientation.
While debates are still ongoing about whether homosexuality is a nature
or a product nurturing, facts and evidences are certainly abound that
even among homosexuals, their experiences in life are different and
not according to text books. While it may be interesting to read about
how certain theories apply to certain individuals, the more common examples
being the 'dominant mother, weak father' theory, many homosexuals certainly do not
fit into the stereotype. Not only so, many homosexuals are brought up
in perfectly ordinary household, sharing absolutely the same upbringing
and exposure as their other siblings, but while their siblings turned
out to be straight, they turned out to be gay."
"The gay community
itself is a very diverse community, not different at all from the heterosexual
community in general. There are masculine gay guys, feminine gay guys,
mascline lesbians, feminine lesbians,
gays who like straight guys, gays who hate straight guys, gays who hate
girls, gays who like girls. gays from all walks
of like, in all sorts of professions. Is this any different from the
heterosexual community?
The answer is no. There are masculine straight guys, feminine straight
guys, masculine girls, feminine girls, straight guys who hate gays,
straight guys who are comfortable with gay guys, straight guys who
(well of course) like girls, and straight guys who (yes believe me)
hate girls. Nature? Nurture? Examples like these certainly seem to defy
all stereotypes and assumptions."
Date:
Sat Jan 15, 20051:29 am
I
find this particular piece of journalism is biased and unprofessional
"The journalist
shall be aware of the danger of discrimination being furthered by the
media, and shall do the utmost to avoid facilitating such discrimination
based on, among other things, race, sex, sexual
orientation, language, religion, political or other opinions, and national
or social origins." Declaration of Principles on the Conduct of
Journalists - International Federation of Journalists (1986)
"As both a Malaysian
and a homosexual, I find this particular piece of journalism is biased
and unprofessional. "
"It seems that
anything bad these days can be attributed to childhood trauma, no thanks
to Freud. It certainly helps as well when you know what the hypothesis
is when one reasons his way to explain a
phenomenon. Take homosexuality for instance. If a gay man has been abused
by his father, his homosexuality is attributed to the yearning for male
attention; whereas if he has strained relations with his
mother, his homosexuality is then blamed on the inability to establish
close relationships with women. Either way, there is no winning it.
Look under the hood, and you'll see that the sole purpose of those articles
were to find something or something to blame, and how to "fix"
it, so to speak. Maybe it's just me, but doesn't this reek like
a B-grade high school essay? Reading them reminded me how it's like when
despots try to get rid of someone: any excuse is a good excuse."
Date:
Sun Jan 16, 20054:01pm
"Homosexual sexual
orientation refers to an enduring emotional, romantic, sexual or affectional
attraction to another person of the same sex (www.apa.org/pubinfo/answers.html).
Sexual orientation should not be confused with sexual behavior or gender
identity or culture. "
Date: Mon Jan 17, 20059:43am
"Married
and have children DOES NOT equalCHANGE."
"Oh dear , we are not saying that "
PLU must not change" or "PLU cant change" or even "
PLU should not change ". What we are saying is that this ….
group is bias from the start. We are trying to help other
see their true colours , what they are hiding behind and their so called sincerity.
If they indeed want to help PLUs , we should be given a choice. But sad to say , in this case , there is no choice. Remember "two
keys or two key holes don’t open a door",
….said. We are just worried that some PLU who are confused
and unsure are being converted to straight by such bias group and only
to find out that - its but too late because by the time, the wife and the children
are involved. "
"Married and
have children DOES NOT equal CHANGE."
"……
Many of them are in their 40's and some up to 50's, married with children
and they have sex with guys. Some even sleep with each other behind
their wives and children when they are on holidays together with their
families or while they are on business trips.
To some of them, they live a 'normal & happy married life', and
sex with another guy is just a 'game' they play like a hobby or something
for leisure (pleasure). These people seems to be well-balanced for as
long as they continue to 'play the game' and not crossing the line.
Let's call them "Wise Players".
However, I also witness
many of them, well... being human with emotions and feelings, engaging
in man to man love relationships besides only having sex. And that lead
to a very bumpy and dangerous double lives. As they play on fire, let's
call them "Fire Players".
When I mixed around
with them, they like to advice me to "get married and have children
and don't go PLU places...", while quietly a few of them would
put his hand on my crotch under the table...
Then, I also know a few "ex-gay" man who got married, have
children, refrain themselves from going PLU places, throw away all gay
pornsVCDs, avoid gay friends
and anything associates to gay culture... Whom
then claim to have 'changed' and NEVER have sex with guys anymore. Of
course, only they know, when they masturbate once every fort nights
or while making love to his wife less than once in a month (like performing
a duty).... only he knows if he keeps playing Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise
pictures in his mind. Let's call them "Mind Players". It does
not CHANGE your sexual orientation. You just choose to live in a different
lifestyle, that's all.
"Again, let me
enphasize: You can change whatever characters or the way
you choose to live in life, but I doubt if you could change your sexual
orientation. "
Date:
Wed Jan 19, 2005 0:21am
An
intimate reflection of values and individuality
"
If I
love a man, it is because I appreciate who you are. In the end, I want
my sexuality to be an intimate reflection of values and individuality.
I learned, that cannot happen if there is lack of basic respect. I
understand to assume what is right for the other and take persistent
actions towards this goal is one basic lack of respect.
I believe one basic
form of respect is listen with empathy. I was
taught respect is the basic ground for understanding relationships.
Reaching out then can happen genuinely. "
Date:
Sun, 23 Jan 200500:51:39 +0800
Never
ever lie to yourself
The most important
thing in life would be to find out who you really like, man or woman,
and when you have made that choice, don't waver but stride proudly forward
and live life as a gay man. Never ever lie to
yourself, if you want true happiness as a man. And for those who are
married, I empatise with you, I can surely
understand the pressure of parents wanting their son to get married.
I don't have any words save I
understand you position.
For those who are
thinking of getting married when they know deep down that they are gay,
PLEASE DON'T!!!!... I've seen too many married gay men go thru divorce
later on in life. It would be very unfair both on you and your spouse
and children. Far better to come cleanly and accept the bitter pill
or pain then, instead of amplifying the hurt and agony later on.
For those who are
not sure, please go ahead, try it out! Explore your sexuality, have
ONS or even group sex, which ever you prefer, just remember SAFE SEX!
Whatever you do, find out for sure what you prefer
early in life so there will be no regrets later on.
There
were in fact many more contributions than what we have featured here.
Due to the fact that many contributions we too lengthy, we had to edit
them shorter. Those wishing to see the full complete text may do so
in the LPG community Yahoogroup.
